Curse

Symeon · Apr 15, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Hello everyone!

It's been two weeks since the last project (Second Lore Project: Clearing out the mist in the storyline) was begun. That project is well under way, but what it set out to do is of course not finished. We need to cover over those holes and clear out the mist by making conclusions where there are gaps in all things related to the storyline. Let us hope that after a good deal of discussion and research we will get there. So make sure to keep that project going.

But anyway, after two weeks (the last project covered a large area so I decided to extend it), it is time to introduce a new project. With only two weeks now until the release of Guild Wars: Factions, we do not have much time to continue exploring the lore of Tyria fully before we set off to Cantha. Of course in future projects we may return to look at Tyria again, but a lot of the focus will be on Cantha.

The aim of this third project is to perform a final detailed study of all that is the continent of Tyria, and the living things that dwell upon it. We will also attempt to delve into Tyria's history, and religions.

The next project will be introduced in about another two weeks, around the time of Guild Wars: Factions’ release. Until then, let’s try to put a lot of effort into this project and the previous one.

So, a final study of Tyria. The aim is to bring all the information we have been given together, and look at connections, details, and missing details. Examining everything we know and what we don’t know, and discussing and researching it.

What things could we look at?

Tyrian geography. The landscape, climates, geology, etc.
The races and families of creatures in Tyria. From the Mursaat to the Tengu, and from the Stone Summit to the Elonians. Details, history, culture, etc.
The nations, and authorities of the lands of Tyria. Details, history, connections, current status.
Religion, myths, legends, superstition, popular culture of Tyria (relates to different races).
The general history of Tyria.
Architecture, arts and crafts of Tyria.

There will probably be other things too.

I'm sure there are plenty of things to talk about within these subject areas, and I have spoken to someone who I think would be happy to introduce some ideas. Discuss and research anything you like, and where there are perhaps controversial things or missing details, we can of course try to make conclusions on them. All opinions are welcome!

Remember, we can find information inside of Guild Wars, and outside, including in the game manual, and on internet sites such as GuildWiki.

And yet again, All written and pictorial evidence that may be useful in discussing the matters at hand should be posted up without hesitation!

anubis_master · Apr 15, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

While i was in the falls area i found this white mantle temple.

With the design it resambles a white mantle archetech, but inside is a stautue of bathizar(witch is burning so it is activly being worshiped). But if is made by the mantle souldnt they be worshiping mursaat not balthasar?
Another thing i foung weird is the ramp leading up to it is the same and the one in heros accent inside the battle isles.

Sentao Nugra · Apr 16, 2006, 07:00 AM // 07:00

aye! someone found the outside entrance to FoW maybe?

that architecture is the temple found all over the gw world, by the grenth statue north of rankor, the UW, HA, ther (obviously) and some other places... interesting to say the least

(sorry its late and i dont care about my grammer right now :/)

Goats17 · Apr 16, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

I dont have them, but we should put up SS' of all the murals of the gods-found in Ascalon, pre and post mostly.

themickman · Apr 16, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

ok, wats with those big statue things in pre-seaing that are found across the wall in the charr area. Personally, i think they resemble the titans but im not sure. . .

HawkofStorms · Apr 16, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Anubis, I believe that may be the arcitectual style of the Druids, or of the Krytans before the White Mantle took power. Remember, the Mantle had only been around for about 2 years.

Anarion Silverhand · Apr 16, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Yes, the statues are resembling Titans. The way I understand it, the Charr worship the titans...

anubis_master · Apr 17, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Anubis, I believe that may be the arcitectual style of the Druids, or of the Krytans before the White Mantle took power. Remember, the Mantle had only been around for about 2 years.

that dose make sence but as far as we know the druids have been around for a long time but we don't know much about them.

djengo · Apr 17, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Maybe the druids worshiped the mursaat, then the temple was found by the krytans or whatever... then the made it a temple of balthazar... just throwing ideas out

Canadian Bacon · Apr 17, 2006, 12:59 AM // 00:59

I took a tour of southern Ascalon for the 2nd time today, I noticed a few things I hadn't before.

I know other have seen this before, but this was my firts time actually looking at it first hand:

This bridge proves that there was once a link between Ascalon and the Crystal Desert.

Not long after, I saw this:

These bones found on Ascalon's side of the mountains closely resemble those scattered throughout the Desert. This suggests that the massive creatures that once roamed the Desert, also popped into Ascalon from time to time. This re-enforces the idea that the bridge served as a passage between Ascalon ad the Desert.

This is unrelated, but i thought it was odd. While it is common knowledge that the giant crystals destroyed Ascalon, it also seems that they are resposible for the re-greenification of Ascalon as well:

This picture shows the most obvious of a few areas where it is apparent that colourful flora has begun to grow around the impact sites of the Searing crystals.

I forget to get a pic of this but, you can just go to Ft. Ranik and see. The moat (sp?) around Ft. Ranik is still water, when all other water is Ascalon was turned to tar. I havn't seen any other water around, but i suggest somebody go heck around crystals; there is potential that this reinforces my previous idea that crystals are helping Ascalon recover.

This is odd: why is it that the Ascalon landscaper looks more like it has suffered alot of seismic activity (rocky, hilly, large "shelves" of rock; presumably caused by Searing?) than the Ring of Fire islands (really do suffer seismic activity, constantly with all the volcanoes)??? i think its weird.

What weather patterns could cause Tyria to be coldest in the middle, and not on the top and bottom like Earth?

Here's my theory on the Charr's plan for invading tyria:

1) Solicit the aid of the Mursaat in building a WMD to aid their war effort (the crystal cannon thing)

2) Send Grimm Sharpfang to 1) scout targets for "artillery barrage", and 2) survey the Catacombs to see if they are a strategical asset

3) Launch artillery according to Grimm's observations (assuming he reported back before being killed), if you look at map there are clusters of crystals in important locations:
-around Ascalon City, obviosly, since it is the hub of Ascalon livlihood, and military, break hole at Breach
-around Sardelac to clear the way for a Catacomb attack (through Breach, into Catacomb entrance near Barradin Estate, seal it behind them)
-Pockmarck Flats to open a hole in the wall to attack through, clear the way down to south Ascalon, line of fire makes a nice curve thru Pockmark and Regent Valley (regent, to clear out Ascalon army, and make way for allies at Sardelac to come down and meet if necessary), cluster in south-east corner to blow apart the positions guarding the AScalon-Crystal Desert Bridge.

4) Charr go across the bridge, and traverse the mountains to lay siege upon the Crystal Desert.

5) Charr go west from Ascalon, to the Northern Shiverpeaks. The Stone Summit are not yet a problem, and the Deldrimor Dwarves put up little fight. To Kryta, the Charr march.

6) In the Desert, the Charr are accustomed to brown, barren terrain and quickly advance to Orr. Vizier Khilbron does his thing, and Orr goes boom. Charr vs. Orrian Kingdom= Orrian Victory (sort of, lol)

7) In the Shiverpeaks, despite the lack of resistance form Dwarves, they Charr despise the cold, hilly terrain, and are hindered in their progress. Their will to carry on pushed them through to Kryta. The Krytans no doubt expected their arrival, and were prepared to defend their nation. Though they emerged victorious, the Lionguard suffered many casualties and the White Mantle took advantage of their weakened state to become self-proclaimed rulers of Kryta.

Off on yet another tangent, the Tarnished Coast (southern edge of Kryta/Maguuma) may be so named because the edge facing Orr is noticabely more brown and desert-looking, in other words it looks tarnished. This likely happened when Orr exploded. The gargantuan explosion sent heat and shockwaves out in all directions, damaging the coastline. Some of the blast energy was redirected off of the Ring of Fire islands, and bounced towards the Coast. North-east of Orr, across the channel, is the Southern Shiverpeaks. The Orr blast completely melted coastline, and a fair ways inland, but the high mountain ridge saved the rest the Shiverpeaks by defelcting the bast skyward. As for the Ring of Fire islands, they weren't affected becasue they were tarnished to begin with. Or, perhaps the volcanoes weer dormant until the blast woke them up, and now there is lava everywhere again.

Covenant · Apr 17, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

One thing...the Charr worship fire, not Titans.

The statues DO look like Titans thou', and the Titan boss is in Ascalon.

SO.....the Titans and Ascalon definetly are related.

Sir Eragon Renecane · Apr 17, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Wow that was awesome canadian bacon you really worked your azz off AWESOME JOB!!!!!

Canadian Bacon · Apr 17, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Eragon Renecane

Wow that was awesome canadian bacon you really worked your azz off AWESOME JOB!!!!!

lol, thanks. I really didn;t work all that hard. My original point was to put up my screenshots, but then I just started throwing down everythign that popped to mind, lol. Very little effort required.

I have just thought of sumthing else to discuss:

The devs went out of their way to mention that Giant's Basin is a Salt Water lake. Why is it salty (it has no tribultaries from the ocean), and why is its salinty relevant?

I have noticed something else, just now. The only place in Tyria who's terrain consists mostly of black rock other than the Ring of Fire islands is the little-known area known to some travelers as "Kryta". You might be thinking, "stfu bacon, Kryta is clearly very green and lush". To you I say, "Yes, Kryta does have foliage. But under the topsoil, the bedrock is black. If you don't believe me, open your map and compare the islands with rocky areas such as Riverside Province, and around Bergen/ToA/Beetletun. You will see that they are in fact woven of the same material, except the islands lack foliage." So, clearly the islands were once, many years ago, a part of Kryta. The only explanation I can offer is that the Islands were at one time stuck to the Tarnished Coast as one unifed land mass, and possibly acted as a bridge between Kryta and Orr. A sudden increase in volcanic an seismic activity on the 'bridge' chunk (possibly some more crazy Orrian spells, like the one that got them killed?) caused it to break off, start to float out to sea in much the same way that our real world continents move, and begin to splinter into the island chain we all know today.

Son of Urza · Apr 17, 2006, 03:00 AM // 03:00

I agree with you- if you look closely, the rocks of Kryta to appear to be volcanic in origin. This fact is especially obvious in the "valleys" in the starting points of several areas, where large chunks of spiky volcanic rock poke out of the ridge edges.

Canadian Bacon · Apr 17, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Yay, 2 people with positive feedback so far.

C'mon people, lets get discussing here! I said alot of stuff, I'm sure people have thoughts! Heh, or did I express my thoughts so perfectly that nobody dares disagree/build on them because there is nothing to disagree about and it is already built high?

themickman · Apr 17, 2006, 03:23 AM // 03:23

or. . .maybe the graphics designers making the game just got lazy and used the same type of terrain in both places

Canadian Bacon · Apr 17, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by themickman

or. . .maybe the graphics designers making the game just got lazy and used the same type of terrain in both places

Or maybe you have no imagination! Ha!

Symeon · Apr 17, 2006, 10:12 AM // 10:12

~Note: Moved five posts about a temple in the Maguuma into this thread.~

Wow, Bacon! Very interesting, lots of effort there - I applaud you!

Well, from the posts so far, it looks like we've got into history, geography and architecture a bit. Several things to discuss.

Firstly, that bridge you found, Bacon. I hadn't seen that before, but it looks like it indeed was a bridge across that now tarry river. Perhaps that means that there was more of the Ascalonian nation to the south of the river, but it was basically cut off. It would make sense that this was the action of the Charr after they had gone across any bridges, that they destroyed them to prevent themselves from being followed. Then, if there was any more of Ascalon on the other side of the river, I should imagine on their journey south they pretty much eliminated it. Following this, they must have crossed that wall of mountains between Ascalon and the Crystal Desert, possibly even through a tunnel, and headed around to Orr. I think some possible connections between Ascalon and the Crystal Desert have been discussed over on GWO, I'll have to check on that.

The giant bones that litter Ascalon and the Crystal Desert are almost certainly those of the Giganticus Lupicus, the great giants, of whom the last signs of living date back to 10,000 years ago (as mentioned in the timeline). The manual gives virtually no other information about them, therefore we must simply assume that they were huge giants, created by the gods as creatures just like any of the others they made, just...massive in size. Since these bones haven't been found elsewhere than Ascalon and the Crystal Desert, we can assume that they generally roamed the eastern side of Tyria.

As for the vegetation around the crystals, it must just be the light energy they are radiating out and the minerals that have been buried into the soil (which plants love) are encouraging growth. The presence of water around Fort Ranik is odd, though. I can't think of an explanation for that. Possibly the moat was sheltered from the tar and other substances - that must have rained down in the searing to cause other areas of water to turn tar-like - by the hill formations/various tall things in the way.

You also mentioned some geology-related aspects, such as the rock patterns in Ascalon and the Ring of Fire and Kryta, and the Tarnished Coast.

I believe this part of a post I made in the thread about the Charr may relate to some of the things you have suggested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

Furthermore, if you look at the game world map, there is a bay that looks almost like a flooded river which stretches as far as the Amnoon Oasis and into the Shiverpeaks. If this had been so when the Charr came, they would have been forced to cross the desert unless they had knowledge building rafts/ships to cross the sea, which I highly doubt.

So, I propose that the sinking of Orr raised the entire sea level. This caused the flooding of lowlands further away from Orr, including the area near Amnoon Oasis and a particular river coming from the Shiverpeaks. This would mean that the Charr could easily have moved around the desert before this land was flooded.

My overall thoughts of this post are illustrated in the picture below. Do not pay attention to the colours, just the mere outlines and basic shapes. All the water on the inside of the line I have drawn around Orr was land before the Cataclysm, but for a river coming from the Shiverpeaks that was of course much thinner until it was flooded. The red arrows show Charr routes.

So, let us merge our two ideas together. The explosion of Orr in the Cataclysm send out shockwaves, 'tarnishing' the coasts...or, perhaps, the heat caused by the explosion heated up the water (not quite as far as boiling point), and sent out these waves of hot water, which sort of eroded the coasts to make them look slightly 'burnt' or 'tarnished'. The explosion of Orr also caused a large amount of solid material to sink under the sea, raising the whole sea level. This flooded the river coming from the Shiverpeaks, and brought water over to the Amnoon Oasis. Before that, the bay between the Shiverpeaks and Orr was mostly land.

If the Ring of Fire islands broke away from Kryta/Maguuma, it must have been a very very long time ago and must have happened very slowly (so happens in geology)

But perhaps this leads us into studying Tyria's geographical past. Kryta indeed looks like there may have been volcanic activity there a long time ago. And it looks similar to the Ring of Fire in its dark under-rocks.

This made me think of a very interesting theory someone over at GWO put together. I might as well bring it here.

(HQ version here)

Various things that help the theory were also discussed in the thread, such as the Bergen Hot Springs and mountain folds. Perhaps even, the Ring of Fire islands in fact were formed by broken away landmasses from the Maguuma and Orr that crashed together, bringing up volcanoes and such. All very interesting stuff, I suggest you check out that thread to bring more of that discussion over here - http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=386378

Let's keep discussing all this geology/geography stuff, it's very interesting.

As for the burning effigies, yes, it has been discussed before, the larger of those most certainly represent titans. What we are unsure of is what the smaller ones represent, but I think that discussion could be kept over in the thread where it started - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=138262

The temple in the Maguuma jungle, and the sequence of the Charr invasion, are also interesting, but I think I've been through enough stuff in this post for now!

The undead Mesmer · Apr 17, 2006, 12:48 PM // 12:48

*ahem* i discovered a few things while walking through ascalon today i noticed that those crystal bombs look a lot like the ones from the crystal desert.

As you can see they look a lot like eachother so they might be related.
After that i whent to the northern coast of kryta where i found a few of these strange towers...

This might prove that the charr attacked from the north because these might have powered up some force field that defended kryta but i am not sure about that....

I then helped a friend with the villiany of galrath when i saw Verata but nowhere in the lore or whatever you see why Verata would have joined forces with Galrath.... Whe have a few more questions now somebody here got more information regarding this?

Thrawn Foxheed · Apr 17, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Verata does not join forces with Galrath afaik, as you can lead Galrath's bandits into Verata's followers and they will fight.

One thing I have wondered about is the fact that the lore booklet notes that Saul D'alessio encountering villages or communities of Mursaat deep within in the Maguuma. Has anyone actually found anything relating to societies of Mursaat in the jungle?

On to some random speculation, Galrath seems to be White Mantle, judging from his attire, maybe he opposed the Mursaat and was exiled from their order? Maybe that is why perhaps that he is accompanied by his Bandits and not by White Mantle.

In the Villainy of Galrath, we venture out to Kessex Peak, where the mysterious Wizard's Tower lies. The quest description describes that there are hidden secrets within the Wizard's Tower. I'm thinking that perhaps Galrath knew what was inside and could be used against the Mursaat.

I don't think that made much sense but whatever lol :P